Curse

The Meth · Feb 26, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Party-Wide armor buffs rock. Armor buffs you get for free (ie from switching out weapons and insignia's) rock too. On the other hand, single target self buffs (ie 'tank' skills) are not the way to go.

As people are stating, a good tactics rank watch yourself! gives around 30% damage reduction, and can of course be kept up near-infinitely. Compare that to aegis, which gives 50% blocking which has no effect against spells and can be kept up at best 1/3rd of the time. Aegis prevents armor ignoring attack damage though, but considering that aegis is widely considered to be a pretty powerful skill you can see why party wide armor buffs are pretty awesome too.

Now, on the other hand with the nerfs to armor stacking you CAN'T stack armor skills beyond +25. This does not apply to shields or insignia's, just skills. This was done to prevent the old WY! and Stand your Ground! buffs from stacking, which would essentially give your 60 armor casters warrior-class armor. This is also why single large self buffs are less useful, since if you already have +25 armor from a party wide buff and you buff yourself with a +40 self buff, you only actually gained 15 armor because they don't stack together past 25.

zwei2stein · Feb 26, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Party-Wide armor buffs rock. Armor buffs you get for free (ie from switching out weapons and insignia's) rock too. On the other hand, single target self buffs (ie 'tank' skills) are not the way to go.

As people are stating, a good tactics rank watch yourself! gives around 30% damage reduction, and can of course be kept up near-infinitely. Compare that to aegis, which gives 50% blocking which has no effect against spells and can be kept up at best 1/3rd of the time. Aegis prevents armor ignoring attack damage though, but considering that aegis is widely considered to be a pretty powerful skill you can see why party wide armor buffs are pretty awesome too.

Now, on the other hand with the nerfs to armor stacking you CAN'T stack armor skills beyond +25. This does not apply to shields or insignia's, just skills. This was done to prevent the old WY! and Stand your Ground! buffs from stacking, which would essentially give your 60 armor casters warrior-class armor. This is also why single large self buffs are less useful, since if you already have +25 armor from a party wide buff and you buff yourself with a +40 self buff, you only actually gained 15 armor because they don't stack together past 25.

Aegis rocks because you can use it on TOP of armor buff. And unlike armor buffs, it stacks with other block sources.

Also, aegis can be run on major characters (mindblast eles, all kinds of necromancers.) as 9 spec reaches important breakpoints and is affordable.

Also, while it is true that armor/block does little to stop some damage, it enables monks to deal with that damage more easily. Hences, that WY does help when you are esurged, its just indirect.

sixofone · Feb 26, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Can anyone tell me where to find information on how elemental (spell) damage works versus armor?

By that, I read somewhere (but have not been able to confirm) that elemental spells hit the chest area, and that would be the best location for a "vs. elemental damage" insignia.

I'm wondering because of the Warrior insignias, one of which grants +10 vs. elemental damage (Dreadnought) and one whioch grants +20 but has a STR req. (Sentinel's). I found a Sentinel insignia, and wanted to use it on Koss, but wasn't sure where to put it on him if it made a difference.

Thanks!

Pleikki · Feb 26, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

its kinda same that where you put that ofc i like feet + head most for it :;D

sixofone · Feb 27, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

its kinda same that where you put that ofc i like feet + head most for it :;D

I finally found some information, and I quote:

"A Sentinel's Insignia is a warrior specific upgrade component that provides an armor bonus of extra armor against elemental damage in exchange for having an attribute level of 13 or more in Strength. This bonus is not global and applies only to the armor piece equipped with the insignia." (emphasis mine)

So - the question still remains: how does GW calcualte elemental damage against armor? Does a Firestorm strike all armor equally? Does it simply use the chest armor? What if someone has a "vs. Fire" on one piece, and "vs. Earth" on another, and so on?

Olim Chill · Feb 27, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Party-Wide armor buffs rock. Armor buffs you get for free (ie from switching out weapons and insignia's) rock too.

Agreed. Those types of armor perks are always worth having - no doubt.

The Meth · Feb 27, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

I finally found some information, and I quote:

"A Sentinel's Insignia is a warrior specific upgrade component that provides an armor bonus of extra armor against elemental damage in exchange for having an attribute level of 13 or more in Strength. This bonus is not global and applies only to the armor piece equipped with the insignia." (emphasis mine)

So - the question still remains: how does GW calcualte elemental damage against armor? Does a Firestorm strike all armor equally? Does it simply use the chest armor? What if someone has a "vs. Fire" on one piece, and "vs. Earth" on another, and so on?

From what I know, all spells hit different sections of armor using the same rules a sword or an axe would. Note: that does NOT mean it hits all armor pieces equally, they are hit by a certain ratio. There is a 1/8th chance of hitting the hands, 1/8th chance of hitting the head, 1/8th chance of hitting the feet, 2/8th's chance of hitting the legs, and 3/8ths chance of hitting the torso. This align's with many of the insignia's bonuses, such as survivor giving 3x as much health on torso as feet, its because torso is a more 'valuable' insignia place. Note: spells used to be messed up and could never hit certain areas, but this was fixed.

So if you had a +10 vs fire on torso, and a +10 vs earth on legs, this is what would happen:
Against all fire attacks you will have a 3/8th's chance to get the +10, and a 5/8th's chance to get +0.
Against all earth attacks you will have a 2/8th's chance to get the +10, and a 6/8th's chance to get +0.

So basically unless you are a gambleing person, just use one type of + armor on the whole set.

The important part is to use things like Stonefist and Lieutenant's insignia ONLY on your hands, feet or head. The reason being that you want to minimize the effect of the loss of armor (or lack of gain in the case of stonefist)

The difference between a stonefist insignia on hands with sentinel's elsewhere and stonefist on torso with sentinel's elsewhere is that with it on hands, you have only a 1/8th chance of not getting your sentinel's bonus, where if it was on your torso you would have a 3/8th's chance of not getting your sentinel's bonus.

BlueNovember · Feb 27, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

From what I know, all spells hit different sections of armor using the same rules a sword or an axe would.

Mmm. I'm near-certain that's not true, but can't think of a way to prove it without finding some Rodgort's user in pve / grabbing someone to 1 v 1 in gh :P.

I believe sixofone is semi-correct. Non-projectile spells hit the chest, and the chest alone. Ie [skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill] will always deal less damage to a target that has a +vs elemental chest piece, whereas [skill]Fireball[/skill] will do different damage depending on where it hits.

Firestorm is interesting in that it has a much greater chance of getting headshots, as each mini-fireball is treated somewhat as it's own projectile, and thus will get headshots in the same way arrows fired from heights do.

sixofone · Feb 27, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Thanks, Meth! Very informative answer.

That explains why someone had said it was best to put an elemental prot insiginia on the chest! (And I use Stonefist on hands mainly because it made sense - "fist" "hands" - but you gave me a much more logical reason why.)

And this post has helped me understand the importance of shields for spellcasters, too. The armor bonus from those is global!

The Meth · Feb 27, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

Mmm. I'm near-certain that's not true, but can't think of a way to prove it without finding some Rodgort's user in pve / grabbing someone to 1 v 1 in gh :P.

I believe sixofone is semi-correct. Non-projectile spells hit the chest, and the chest alone. Ie [skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill] will always deal less damage to a target that has a +vs elemental chest piece, whereas [skill]Fireball[/skill] will do different damage depending on where it hits.

Firestorm is interesting in that it has a much greater chance of getting headshots, as each mini-fireball is treated somewhat as it's own projectile, and thus will get headshots in the same way arrows fired from heights do.

As I said, it used to be different before, but it is now true that all spells have the same hit distribution as attacks. I remember at one point there was some kind of oddity that spells would never hit hands, but that was fixed.

I do believe that bows and spears _might_ hit the head more, but have never seen anyone do an actual test on that. I can say for sure that spells such as firestorm have the normal distribution, the firestorm graphical is just an effect, it doesn't represent how the game handles damage.

I just walked out of D'Alessio seaboard in HM. Immolate and Rodgort's invocation were able to hit my boots, my torso and my hands just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

Thanks, Meth! Very informative answer.

That explains why someone had said it was best to put an elemental prot insiginia on the chest! (And I use Stonefist on hands mainly because it made sense - "fist" "hands" - but you gave me a much more logical reason why.)

And this post has helped me understand the importance of shields for spellcasters, too. The armor bonus from those is global!

Indeed, even if you don't have anything in the shields attribute, if you have say a max shield with +10 vs slashing , you have a total of +18 damage vs almost all warriors and dervishes. That would give a caster 78 total armor vs them, more then rangers/dervishes/assassins. Free armor is yummy.